Navigating our Relationship with Death

Valerie Friedlander 0:00
Hello, my friends, and welcome to another episode of unlimited today. We are talking about navigating our relationship with death. And while I was scheduling out my episodes, I was like, when is a good time to put this episode? And I realized there is no good time. There’s also no bad time, because death is ever present. It is an intrinsic part of our human experience, of our humanity, and it is important for us to explore this profound and challenging aspect of life that we so often won’t talk about it, is only by engaging this topic, by talking about it, by becoming open to it as an important part of our journey, that we open the door to receiving care around it and to being able to provide care around it, when we shut that door and when we refuse to look at it, when we avoid it, we isolate ourselves. And so often people talk about grief being extremely isolating, and we’re social creatures. We need each other. The other thing that comes to mind is just this binary that we often set up of the idea that like birth, the beginning of life is this joyful experience, and death, the end of life is this sorrowful experience. And the fact of the matter is that we are not that binary. Both ends hold the multitude of our emotional self, which whether we have access to that full range of emotion, is a question. We often shut down access to that or have that shut down as we navigate this world. But it exists. It’s all there. And I believe that it’s important to embrace that fullness, just like we want to embrace that fullness throughout life, through all of it, not just constantly chase things, but to be present and to embrace that whole experience. So to do that, to engage this conversation, to open that door and invite us all to walk through and connect with the care we deserve around this aspect of life. I invited Nikki Smith, who is a compassionate and experienced death doula and grief coach. She helps individuals and their families navigate the complex, emotional, practical and spiritual aspects of the end of life journey. She serves the terminally ill, dying, elderly and their loved ones with dignity and respect. Her goal is to help people embrace the end of life and share open and honest communication with their loved ones. She can take the burden and hold space so you can focus on what matters most in your final days and leave this world at peace when she’s not dueling, she’s usually found hiding in the trees somewhere. Together, we explore the essential role of a death doula, the importance of having space for grief, engaging our fear of death, and how to find care through the end of life experience, whether you are facing the loss of a loved one, supporting someone who is dealing with the loss of a loved one, contemplating your own mortality, or is simply Curious about the work of a death doula, I know you are going to find this conversation invaluable. So without further ado, let’s get started. Hey there. I’m Valerie Friedlander, Certified Life business alignment coach, and this is unlimited. This podcast bridges the individual and the societal, scientific and spiritual, positive and negative, nerdy and no, there’s just a lot of nerdy. Come on board, and let’s unlock a light that’s as badass as you are.

Speaker 1 4:18
Welcome, Nikki, I’m so excited to have you on the podcast.

Nikki Smith 4:22
Thank you. I’m excited to be here.

Valerie Friedlander 4:24
Honestly, I don’t know that I had heard of a death doula until I met you. Definitely heard of a birth doula. But before we get into that, I want to start with a question that I ask each guest this season, which is, what is a limit you took for granted that you have since unlearned,

Nikki Smith 4:43
Oh, um, just pick one.

Valerie Friedlander 4:47
I know, right?

Nikki Smith 4:48
Yeah, I’ve learned a lot of well, I’ve had a lot of limits that I’ve since unlearned, but the biggest one in my most recent experience is that you don’t have to follow that formula that ever. Everybody at my age has been fed their entire life. Of you go to high school, you go to college, you get a career, you retire, you die. You don’t have to go that route. You don’t have to go to college if you don’t want to. You don’t have to get a quote, unquote career in a corporate job if you don’t want to. That was drilled into my head for so long, and I full out believed it until about five years ago, when I started realizing I don’t have to do this.

Valerie Friedlander 5:22
What made that shift for you?

Nikki Smith 5:25
Honestly, Covid helped a lot. I hate to say, that Covid helped, but you know what I mean

Valerie Friedlander 5:30
I do,

Nikki Smith 5:31
The pandemic kind of helped push that like I I was, I’m obsessed with people that live nomadic lifestyles. That is an a goal for me one day, is to live life, you know, on the road, be it, you know, van, RV, whatever, even just couch to couch, I don’t care, and that’s always fascinated me. So I love learning about those, those people and what they do and their lifestyles like. And it never occurred to me that something like that would be possible, because growing up in, you know, middle class, middle America. It’s like the people that do that are looked down upon. Like, no, these people are really cool. And as things started becoming more and more remote, like, I started working remote for my full time day job I used to have at home. And I was like, I can do this anywhere, because we would go on vacation, and I would still be able to log in and work part of the day. So, yeah.

Valerie Friedlander 6:24
Yeah. Well, and it’s, it’s something that I think about as living really fully. Like, what is it like? What does it mean to like, fully live your life? And I was also one of those people who like, fit the prescription of you go to school, you get good grades, you graduate, you get married, you get a job, you climb the corporate ladder, you buy a house in the suburbs, you have two children, and then

Nikki Smith 6:53
Question mark?

Valerie Friedlander 6:54
yeah? eventually you get to retire, maybe, if you’re lucky.. and

Nikki Smith 7:01
Yeah. Well, and I broke that pretty quick, just out of the fact that I didn’t really have any desire to get married for a long time, and I never really wanted kids, so that part of the equation was never, never registered in my brain, but it was still just pushed upon like, well, you still have to have a job, a career. And,

Valerie Friedlander 7:19
Yeah, well, and it’s something that, of course, has come much more home to me. And one of the reasons why, when I learned about you and what you do, I was like, we definitely need to talk about this, because I had never heard of a death doula, like I said, I’ve heard of a birth doula. I had support from one in giving birth. I used midwives, but, you know, we got training from a birth doula, and really got an understanding of what I could ask for, what I wanted in that process, and how to create that space for myself and have others who can support me creating that space. So I was like, Oh, I had never thought about that being applied to end of life. And here I am at, you know, relatively young age of 42 and I’ve lost a number of people relatively recently, friends, friends, spouses. It it’s been and it was, I guess I was like, Oh, I didn’t realize I was at that age yet, because I always thought, you know, later, because this is the order that you do things in that or like, sudden loss. I’ve my my cousin died in a bike accident and and that has been really hard. I’ve been blessed to not have a lot of loss in my life. And so seeing this and starting to think about mortality a lot more, also with the situation of the world and everything that’s going on, you know, there’s just a lot more thinking about it. And so I was like, I would love to know and have you share with the people who are listening, what is it that you do? How? Yeah, I’m gonna leave it at that.

Speaker 2 9:09
Yeah. Well, and thank you for bringing up the birth doula, because most people have heard of a birth doula. I’ve only encountered a handful of people who have not ever heard of a birth doula. So once I ask them if they understand what birth doulas do, they say, and they say, Yes, I’m like, then you know what I do? So much like you were saying you received support ahead of time as how you want your birthing process to go. I do very much the same thing for people who are facing end of life and this, I mean, this can be anybody who has a terminal diagnosis, somebody who is still receiving treatment, or even just somebody who might be, you know, in their mid to late 70s, and they know, you know, it could be coming now, or it could be 20 years from now, but they want to be ready. I work with people my age, sometimes just getting their advanced directive paperwork together to make sure they have everything taken care of that they need to but yeah, just like you said, I help people come up with most of my clients have. Terminal diagnosis, and I will help them come up with their plan for how they would like for their final days, weeks, months to go, and that can look like, you know, they would, most people want to be at home. How can we set up your home? Is that feasible? Is hospice ready? You know, should we sign up for hospice and explaining to them, the family, how hospice works and what they do and what they don’t do do we need extra care? Where can we find that I so I do a little bit of the social work stuff to just help them get those taken care of. But then you know, what are your spiritual beliefs? Do you have a certain ritual? Do you have certain people that you need around you? Do you have certain items that you need present in your final breaths? And so once they are no longer able to speak for themselves, I can speak for them to make sure that their wishes are honored.

Valerie Friedlander 10:44
Are there legal aspects that go into that? Because, like, I know advanced directives and power of attorney, and like all of that, I’ve a friend who’s a state attorney, and so, like I I know that when I was birthing, I could have said I want my Doula present, and then they would have a say, and if I was not able to communicate, well, that they would do that for me. What does that look like?

Nikki Smith 11:10
So, now, in a situation like that, I don’t know if the birthing doula could do that, unless you made them your healthcare power of attorney, and this is to make, you know, life decisions as far as if, let’s say you are, you have terminal illness, you have ALS and you have a stroke and you’re now in the hospital, you might not necessarily been on hospice, yet you might not be in your last final months, but now you’ve had this massive stroke and you are brain dead, or you’re just no longer responsive. Who is going to make that decision as far as life sustaining like, Do you want a feeding tube? Do you want to be on artificial breathing machines? And do you not want that? And the power of attorney is the person that will make that decision for you, and it is a legal document. You don’t need an attorney to complete one. You can find those whatever state you’re in, I encourage you to just Google healthcare power of attorney my state, and you’ll find that form most of the time. All you need is a notary to notarize that document, sometimes even just two witnesses. Then those do need to be honored. And financial power of attorney is the same, only that’s like somebody that can manage your finances if you are no longer able to do so.

Valerie Friedlander 12:19
I’m curious that because you, I’m sure you get a lot of questions and a lot of things that you’re like, they’re things that people don’t know, because this is considered a taboo subject. Absolutely nobody wants to talk about it, even when you’re talking to like, parents who are aging. You know, my age of having those conversations with my parents as they age, and like, what are your plans so that I know I’m the eldest daughter, what are some of those things that you’re like? People really should know this.

Speaker 2 12:45
Yeah, yeah. I remember. I can very vividly remember I was young, like, maybe eight, 910, years old, and I the the thought just popped into my head one day, and I asked my mom. I was like, what will happen to Grandma’s house when she dies? Because she lived there alone, her husband had died a long time prior. My grandfather died well before I was born, and my mom looked at me aghast and just said, That’s don’t she just seemed horrified that I even asked that question. I didn’t know any better at the time. But these are valid questions, and we can’t be afraid of those. You know, I would hope if somebody were to ask you what would happen to your home if you pass away, you would have an answer right away. If you don’t that might I’m hoping that would also make that trigger in your brain to say, I need to figure this out so I know what will happen with my home when I die. The bank would probably just take mine. But, you know, I still owe on it. But you’re right. We are way too scared to talk about these things. And me being a death doula, I talk about death and dying all day long, so it doesn’t faze me. I also respect that it’s it’s a scary subject for a lot of people. But if I, if nothing else, if I can encourage people to know that talking about it doesn’t make it happen. I promise you, bringing up death doesn’t make somebody die. It’s not how that works.

Valerie Friedlander 14:00
Thank you for saying that. I almost feel like that’s probably the most important thing that people don’t know yet, that they need to know. There’s so much, especially in the wellness space, there’s so much layer of manifestation, like speak it into the existence. And so I think in a lot of ways, that way of talking about things kind of reinforces this idea that you should, don’t talk about the quote, unquote negative things, because if you say them right, then they’ll be there. Except that oftentimes that means that we’re, like, not talking about things that actually are there you need to talk about,

Nikki Smith 14:37
Yeah, well, and grief is the same way we don’t talk about grieving and grief, and I’m a I do grief coaching as well, and I also work with families after their person has passed away, to help them process their grief and get through that initial hump. And we’re not taught as a society or as a culture how to grieve, and it’s going to be different for everybody. So there’s no handbook. There are. Handbooks, don’t get me wrong, but they’re all, you know, everybody’s going to be different. Some people are going to, like, ball their eyes out and scream and cry. Some people are going to hold it in. Some people are going to express it through their art medium. Like, there’s a million ways to grieve, but we’re not taught that it’s even okay or to talk about it, and so we just sit alone with our grief, wondering, Am I doing it right? You know?

Valerie Friedlander 15:24
Yeah, you know, that really stands out to me, especially because I am a parent, and a lot of the people that I’ve lost recently had young children, and I wonder, as a death doula, supporting people. What do you see with that, like, how? How do people approach that? Um, both in the process of losing someone, but also in the aftermath of that loss.

Nikki Smith 15:58
Approaching grief? You mean?

Valerie Friedlander 15:59
Yeah, well, yeah, grief. I mean, especially just as a parent. I mean, I’m sure you’ve worked with people who have kids that they’re thinking of and preparing to not be there for, and then also a spouse who then has to hold the family while grieving at the same time, holding space and grieving at the same time. Just is a lot.

Speaker 2 16:23
Yeah, it is a lot. And I do see a lot of people in that situation. And I was in that position myself. My only brother passed away unexpectedly almost 10 years ago, and I specifically remember and I talked about this with somebody else after his death, my my reaction to this was, I don’t have a space, or I don’t need a space to grieve, because I’m just the sister like my parents lost their son. They lost their only son, their oldest child, and he had two young children, and they there are these two under 18, beautiful children that lost their dad. So there’s no space for me to grieve this, because I need to help take care of them, and I need to help take care of my parents and make sure everybody’s okay that I never even thought about grieving myself and that it, it came back to bite me real hard. It took a few years, but it hit me that i i Never processed that that loss, and so it is a tricky space. So I always encourage people to take a ask for help. Okay, if you need it, ask for help. There is no shame in that. And if you’re not comfortable talking to friends or family, find a therapist, find a grief coach, find a life coach, find somebody, an objective third party, that you can just vent to and have that space to process your grief, to talk about it, to you know, get through whatever you need to get through so that you can be available. Because if you don’t deal with your it’s like the oxygen mask in the airplane. If you don’t put it on yourself first, you can’t help the person next to you. So you have to take care of yourself if you want to take care of other people. 100%

Valerie Friedlander 18:00
Yeah. So what does it look like when you’re helping people with that, like, how, what is there a process? I mean, I know we’re just talking about, like, there’s no, like, one size fits all process when it comes to grief, even though, like, five stages of grief. Well, we know that those are all over the place. They’re not just five, and they definitely don’t go into order, and they show up even when you thought that they were not there anymore, and all of that.

Nikki Smith 18:26
It’s not a to do list. You don’t check them off.

Valerie Friedlander 18:29
It’s not into it’s not a to do list. Even if you want it to be a to do list, there’s definitely been some, some griefs that I’ve walked through. I’m like, Okay, could we just check that one now and maybe it can be done.

Nikki Smith 18:41
Yeah.

Valerie Friedlander 18:42
and it’s not how it works at all,

Nikki Smith 18:43
Yeah. And some people never get to acceptance. Some people just never, never get to that acceptance level. And that’s that’s okay, you know, it’s gonna look different for those people. But as far as like a process, the biggest and most important thing I can do is just giving them a space to talk about it. Because, like I said, especially those who have other family members who have suffered the same loss, or that, you know, lost the same person or thing, or whatever it might be, it’s hard for them to talk about that with each other, and it’s hard for them to deal with their own when they’re trying to deal with everybody else’s grief as well and keep maybe keeping the house together, keeping a job. So if nothing else, giving them an hour or two a week to just talk it out is invaluable. You know, you you understand that too.

Valerie Friedlander 19:30
Yeah.

Nikki Smith 19:31
Like just giving people that space, but I help people understand where they’re, you know, where they’re not facing it, and help them with grounding techniques to get through their day to day and other coping mechanisms they can for one, if they’re not with me and they’re with, you know, at their job or with their kids or wherever, and it hits and it hits hard, what can we do in that moment to, you know, recenter yourself so that you can get to yourself to a safe space?

Valerie Friedlander 19:55
Yeah, yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And you have a podcast. And I was listening to it, and I love how you approach things with a lot of care, and also you talk about humor. And so, you know, when we talk about grief, I think oftentimes we forget that we have a full range of emotions when we are talking about stuff, especially if it’s close to somebody, we do need somebody else to talk to that’s not so directly impacted by it, because to be able to be irreverent about something, yeah, that is going to have such an impact on somebody else’s life. Or to, you know, have humor about it, or to really talk about logistics of it, or any of those things it’s it’s hard to do when it’s someone who’s impacted. So I appreciate that you engage that full range of experience, because we’re still human, even in all layers of these processes.

Speaker 2 20:55
Yeah, absolutely. And there’s going to be days where you are going to need to be angry, you’re going to need to scream. You might, you know, punch a pillow or do something constructive with your anger. Go for, I usually go for a run or an aggressive bike ride if I have to, if I’m in that anger space to help work that energy out. Or, you know, you might be in a space that day where you just need to cry and be alone, or cut out everything altogether and just Doom scroll on your social media. We poo, poo doing that. But sometimes you need that to distract yourself. That’s gonna work. I scroll Tiktok sometimes for like, two hours when I’m upset.

Valerie Friedlander 21:31
Oh yeah,

Nikki Smith 21:32
You know? And sometimes you need to laugh at it, like we absolutely had moments of laughter after my brother passed away. I tell the story a lot. So if you’ve if anybody’s listening to my podcast, they’ve heard it a million times. But we had my brother cremated, and we have a plot, a family plot, where we were putting his ashes, and this was a year after he had died, and we were driving to the cemetery, my parents were the front seat, and I was in the back seat with the urn, and I kept joking. I was like, “Mom! Scott’s on my side of the car!” like we did when we were kids. My mom, bless her heart, turned around, said, “We will turn this car around and go home!” So she could have been upset at me, because it was such a it was such a down day, because we had all spent a year and we were starting to come out of our grief, and now we had this again, and it was just such a somber thing, and I couldn’t take it anymore?

Valerie Friedlander 22:21
Yeah, so I’m curious how you got into this work.

Nikki Smith 22:26
Yeah. I had heard about death doulas quite a while back, probably eight or nine years ago on a YouTube video. And I was like, what a flipping cool thing that is. And I started, like, trying to find some information on there just wasn’t much at that time because it’s such a relatively new profession. It’s not a new profession. It’s new as death doula as we know it. Right now, people have been doing what we do for ever, but as an actual like, scope of work as a death doula is relatively new, and I couldn’t find a ton of information on it, but I just kept like, I hear little bits and find random articles. And I just kept thinking it was such a such a cool thing, and I started volunteering at a hospice, and I just, I just felt so natural. It felt like home to me to be doing this. And then covid, like I mentioned before, kind of shook up everything with me, and I realized I just was not happy with where I was in my life, and I needed to do something meaningful that gave back to the world in some way, shape or form, because I felt like I’d just been stuck in this corporate life of, you know, money and greed and everything else. I’m like, I don’t like this. I don’t want to do this anymore. I want to live a life that gives back and is more, you know, impactful in some way, shape or form, and this death doula thing kept coming up to me. So I was working with a life coach at the time too, and she finally said, so why don’t you just do it? It never occurred to me I could just do it. So I found a training and did the went through the training course, and here I am.

Valerie Friedlander 23:58
I appreciate that a lot, and and the work that you do, because if we can’t embrace our mortality, then we’re disconnecting from a core part of our humanity, yeah? And I think in a lot of spaces, like corporate spaces, and it’s all future focused, but it’s not too future focused, yeah, right. Like, if I just earn enough money, and then I have all this stuff, and then I will get to retire and do the fun things. And I think a lot of that thinking is breaking down as we’re watching how it’s not working.

Nikki Smith 24:32
Yeah, yeah, retirement is not really a thing anymore.

Valerie Friedlander 24:35
Right.

Nikki Smith 24:36
Well, and how many stores have you heard about the guy who worked his entire life to retirement in two weeks after retired, died of a heart attack.

Valerie Friedlander 24:42
Right. Well, we’re starting to recognize the stress impact on our bodies, yeah, and all the ways that we are living in the world that are breaking us down, literally. So,

Nikki Smith 24:54
yeah,

Valerie Friedlander 24:54
that is a real thing. And so to be able to, you know, to just like, well, I’m only going to think this far, but I’m not. Going to think that far and recognizing that as part of mortality, that is part of humanity. Yeah, there’s a lot of fear there. I think to go that far to think that far, because we are losing corporeal existence. We’re losing the space that we know, that we’re familiar with, yeah, and what do you find comes up for people when they start thinking about that?

Speaker 2 25:32
I think most people are scared when you talk about death or dying and again, this is where our aversion to it comes. We don’t want to think about it because we’re scared, because we don’t it’s it’s this thing that’s there, that’s this big event that kind of you know, for all we know, ends it forever for us. And we don’t know when it’s coming. None of us know even I mean, you might have a diagnosis. They might say you have XYZ time, but you still just, most of us, at any given point, have no idea when we’re going to die, and that’s scary, because you know you have things you want to do, you’re living your life, you’re you’re excited, and you have plans, and to know that at any moment that could be gone. It’s It’s terrifying for people, and I think that’s the point most people are at, is they don’t unders. You know, we don’t know what’s going to happen. We don’t know how it’s going to go. We just know that one day we’re going to die and this will all be over. And I always encourage people, it’s it’s okay to be scared of that. I am too, of course, I am. I’ve got a million plans I’d like to do before the end of my life, but I don’t know. I could get hit by a bus tomorrow. But, you know, use that to embrace today. You know, I’m not saying you have to Yolo every single day of your life, because that’s just not feasible. But, like, I took a huge risk leaving a corporate job to open up my own business as a death doula, like, you know, but I also recognize, like, I could die any day, and I don’t want to die knowing I didn’t pursue this. So if, if you’re trying to make that decision, make it. Just do it. Life is too short.

Valerie Friedlander 27:10
Yeah, there’s a line at the end of the Red Hot Chili Peppers song, “Can’t Stop” that I’ve always appreciated, and it’s “this life is more than just a read through.” And it just reminds me that this isn’t a dress rehearsal. We don’t get another one, at least that we’re conscious of. Most of us, I suppose, not to project any belief systems on anybody so but, you know, there’s is the reason why I coach the way I coach is very much about like, what are we bringing into our now space? Not like, what do you imagine you’ll experience in the future, and what does it look like to bring that into our now space? Because our means create our ends,

Nikki Smith 28:04
yeah,

Valerie Friedlander 28:05
in life, and that way you know that you’re like, you’re living fully and not just waiting for something else to happen. Because when we live like that, we’re always chasing something anyway. So it’s like, you’re never actually gonna have it. You’re just gonna chase it.

Nikki Smith 28:19
Yeah?

Valerie Friedlander 28:21
So I know that for the work that I do, it’s very personal as well, and there’s just a lot of different ways of approaching things. And for people who don’t necessarily know I you have an episode on your podcast, they’re talking about hospice and breaking down myths around hospice.

Nikki Smith 28:41
Oh, yeah.

Valerie Friedlander 28:41
And like, helping people engage hospice?

Nikki Smith 28:43
Yeah,

Valerie Friedlander 28:44
and it brought to mind as I was listening to it, and I’ll have it linked in the show notes for people who want to go check that out. But what would you like people to know about finding care? Like, and I think about like, what are the things to look for when they’re looking for support around death, whether it’s their own or a loved ones. What are things that people should look for? What are like red flags? Because there are certainly practitioners out there who are not necessarily in alignment with the people who are searching. So what should people be looking for, both in the ways that are helpful, in the ways that are maybe not?

Nikki Smith 29:28
Yeah. Well, first thing I would say is, like, especially if it comes to hospice, you’re allowed to shop around, and you’re also allowed to fire your hospice. If you start on the team and it’s not working and you don’t like them, you can end that there’s there’s no like, sorry, you’re in it until the end, you can find a different hospice, but shop around. Don’t be afraid to call several have them come to your house. Chat with them. Most of them will come to the house for screening anyway, to go over eligibility requirements. But. And same with home like, if you’re getting home health care, shop around and you can fire them at any point too. Do your research. If you’re going to have strangers coming in and out of your house, you know, make sure you’re with a reputable organization that has any licenses they might need, especially when it comes to nurses and nursing staff. Do they require licenses? Make sure they have all that so, yeah, don’t be afraid to research.

Valerie Friedlander 30:24
And what about hiring someone like you

Speaker 2 30:28
Now death doulas, depending on where you are within the country, like there’s maybe a dozen of us in the entire state of Ohio. I’m in Columbus, Ohio. If you go to New York or Oregon, you’re going to have, you know, a lot to choose from. So same thing. Feel free to shop around. But any one of us that I’ve ever spoken with, we’ll do a couple introductory sessions. We’ll meet with you, we’ll chat with you to kind of make sure that we’re all on the same page and you vibe well with that person, like a birth doula, right? I’ve, I’ve never been through the birthing process, but I would imagine that’s such an intimate thing that I would want somebody I trust and that I really get along with to be present for that. And same with dying. Dying is a very intimate experience, and if somebody’s going to be right there with you the whole time, holding your hand and walking you through it, you want to make sure it’s somebody you get along with and that you trust.

Valerie Friedlander 31:25
Is this something that you work with people virtually, or is it all in person?

Speaker 2 31:29
I do a little bit of both, most of my grief coaching and grief sessions I do virtually. I have done some in person and with the doula work. I will do a lot of my initial meetings via zoom or over the phone until we all are comfortable with each other, and then it’ll really kind of depend on the circumstance where they are, but I will be with them at some point. I can do full virtual but, you know, obviously, when it comes to the person being actively dying, it’s preferable for me to be physically present so I can make sure things are going the way they want it to.

Valerie Friedlander 32:03
Yeah, that makes sense. If there’s a last thing that you would want people to know about the work that you do. I mean, obviously we want to encourage people to go listen to your podcast where they can get all the information. But is there something that you you would like the people listening to take away.

Nikki Smith 32:24
Yeah, we are a lot of people kind of misunderstand what we do. And yes, we are there to hold your hand physically as you pass away. But there’s so much more we can do. And we work with people after a sudden loss. We work with people who are not even actively dying yet or nowhere near their death, store, anything around end of life, work we can help with, even if you meet with us just one time to help understand your your Advanced Directive, paperwork, what you need, what you don’t need. You know, I could talk all day long about all the different services we could provide. So yeah, don’t be afraid to reach out. Like, if you just have questions, anybody who’s in this line of work, we’re doing it because we want to, right? I can tell you, we’re not in it for the money, but you can… don’t be afraid to reach out to us and we’ll answer your questions. We’re happy to talk about what we do

Valerie Friedlander 33:14
That’s so important. Because, I mean, I do see this also within the with people using birth dualism, like, I just don’t want to deal with finding somebody else. And like, I don’t want to be difficult. And like all the people pleaser like, I this is, this is your life, this is your death. Like, you get to be difficult. You’re allowed,

Valerie Friedlander 33:35
Yeah, and let us do that. There are so many people I’ve worked with that want are in that space where they’re ready to stop treatment, but they’re scared to because their family doesn’t want them to. Their family wants them to keep fighting. And they’re, they’re ready, they’re done, you know, they’re they’re past the fighting stage. They just want to end peacefully. And they’re scared to upset the the apple cart, so to speak. So I’m like, let me come in and have that help navigate that conversation with your family. You know, I’ll do it a gentle way, but let me help that conversation happen.

Valerie Friedlander 34:07
Yeah. Oh, well, I really appreciate the work that you do. Where can people find you?

Speaker 2 34:13
I am on the interwebs. My website is nikkitheula.com and it’s spelled n, i, k, k, i. I’m also on Facebook, Instagram and Tiktok, all at Nikki the death doula, awesome.

Valerie Friedlander 34:25
Well, I will have links in the show notes. I like to wrap up with a couple questions,

Nikki Smith 34:31
Sure.

Valerie Friedlander 34:31
First one is, what does it mean to you to be unlimited?

Nikki Smith 34:35
To be unlimited? Oh, that’s a very good question. I think that means keeping your mind as open as possible to any and all experiences.

Valerie Friedlander 34:48
Yeah, and when you want to welcome in that unlimited feeling, what song do you listen to?

Nikki Smith 34:57
Oh, there is… ehhh. I listen to really weird, obscure music, but there’s an artist from the UK called Aphex Twin does techno music. And there’s one particular song, it’s called “On” O N and there’s no lyrics or anything. But that song always just makes me feel so like open and calm and vibrant all at once. I love that song.

Valerie Friedlander 35:20
Cool. Well, I will add that to the unlimited podcast playlist so everybody can go check it out.

Nikki Smith 35:28
Yay.

Valerie Friedlander 35:29
And thank you so much Nikki for joining me today and sharing about what you do. Really appreciate you.

Nikki Smith 35:35
Thank you. Thank you for having me and giving me a space to talk about what I do, because I love talking about what I do.

Valerie Friedlander 35:40
Yay! Thanks for listening. I so appreciate you being here. If you got something out of today’s episode, please share it, leave me a review, take a screenshot and post it on social with a shout out to me. Send it to a friend or, you know, all of the above. Want to hang out more, join me on Instagram, or better yet, get on my mailing list to make sure you don’t miss out on anything, and remember your possibilities are as unlimited as you are. Allow yourself to shine, my friend, the world needs your light. See you next time you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai