Cultivating a Culture of Truthlighting

Valerie Friedlander 0:05
Valerie, hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Mindset, Unlimited Mindset Tips, Tools, and Inspiration for Women in a Time of Change. I’m your host, Valerie Friedlander, ICF certified coach, sociologist, intersectional feminist artist, mom, and nerd. And today we are talking about dismantling corporate gaslighting and creating a culture of truth lighting. And my guest is Falguni Shah, who is the founder of For Truth Lighting. Welcome. I’m so excited to have you on today.

Falguni Shah 0:42
Thank you, Valerie. I’m happy to be here.

Valerie Friedlander 0:45
So, I’m going to read your bio for everyone to hear, and then we will dive in. Dr. Falguni Shah shares her expertise as a researcher and professor focused on advancing trust by building responsible and bias-aware systems. Founder of Truth Lightning, a human-centered leadership and coaching practice, and author of the best-selling book, From Gaslighting to Truth Lightning, a new framework for advancing fair opportunities for women in the workplace. Dr. Shah has 20 plus years of experience in healthcare and organizational leadership. Her current research focuses on talent management, leading diverse global teams, and the correlation between qualities of leader-follower relationships. I am so excited to talk about all of this. I mean, as somebody who has experienced corporate gaslighting and worked with people who have been navigating these things and not knowing that that’s what they’re dealing with. I think this topic in your work is so important. As we get started diving in, I always like to ask, what is a limit that you had internalized you were not aware of that you since unlearned, and how did you unlearn it?

Falguni Shah 2:02
It is self-doubt for me. As I published the book, which is now a number one bestseller on Amazon under human resources and personnel category, I interviewed a number of women for the content of my book, and I realized that women are gaslighted at workplaces, and it undermines their self-confidence and their self-trust. And as I was preparing for the introduction of my book and writing about my own journey and the purpose, I was reflecting on my own leadership journey, and I realized that as much as there’s an external component to gaslighting, there is an internal component to gaslighting, and I realized that I perhaps may be gaslighting myself and my own abilities, creating a subtle form of anxiety every time I need to perform, or every time I’m taking a new challenge and task, and we all internalize to a certain extent the messages that we have received as we’re growing up through our life experiences, and we create our own narratives and our own stories that we tell ourselves, right. And so these stories are not always enhancing our confidence or trust. And so, as I launched my book, and I started speaking about my book, and putting myself out there, advocating for myself. That’s when I really unlearned this limit of doubting myself, and as I kept putting myself out there more and more, I realized that I’m getting more and more confident, and I realized that nobody else knows the content of my book the way I do, so there’s really no reason for me to have that limitation when I’m going out there and speaking about the topic that I have researched for more than five years, and so now at this point I’ve spoken in corporate events, I’ve done a number of podcasts, I’ve been on media, and I’ve spoken to a crowd as large as 200 plus individuals. So I think that by putting myself out there, believing in myself, I have been able to unlearn that limitation.

Valerie Friedlander 4:23
Yes, that was something that actually really stood out in your book that I wrote down that I wanted to talk about. It was towards the beginning you mentioned imposter syndrome, which is something that you know I’ve done a lot of looking at when I first heard the idea that imposter syndrome was a way of individualizing and pathologizing an external environmental dynamic. I was like, oh my gosh, yes, it is. And so much of what your book is talking about is looking at that, and what you said in the beginning was imposter syndrome became the driving factor for success, and I was really. Really curious, and you kind of touched on that just now, of like, but the, it was, it sounds like in some ways it was motivational, which oftentimes when people think of imposter syndrome, they think about this demotivation, right, this like you shouldn’t do this. I’m curious about what you mean by like that, it was a driving factor for you.

Falguni Shah 5:24
Yes, and in my book I talk about it as an imposter’s ambition, because that internal drive that we all have, right, to succeed, to share our purpose, to share our goals with the community, and once you kind of realize that, which I realized through my own experiences, as I was being gaslit, I was like, do I want to do something about it, or do I want to just keep feeling like, you know, I’m a victim of this imposter syndrome, and that’s when I decided to give it a purpose, and said, okay, I’m going to bring these voices forward, and I’m going to create awareness around this, and motivate leaders to kind of level up and appreciate and acknowledge other people’s reality, and empower and encourage them, rather than create more self-doubt or feed into that imposter syndrome.

Valerie Friedlander 6:22
Yeah, it sounds like really a big piece of it was recognizing that it wasn’t actually yours, that it was being done to you. And so often I think women don’t always realize it, maybe more so now than you know, 10 years ago when I was in corporate, like I knew that there was something wrong, but I didn’t know. I still hadn’t quite figured out, like when you’re fighting yourself and it’s not you, you can’t really get anywhere there. When you can recognize that this isn’t mine, this is, this is, you know, somebody is dumping sludge into the water that I’m swimming in, so what am I going to do about it? What do you find is helpful when someone has internal light, like it’s inside me, but I don’t know that it didn’t come from inside of me. I think it’s mine. What have you found that’s helpful in helping people recognize that it’s not theirs.

Falguni Shah 7:23
Yeah, I think that introspection really helps with understanding where this is coming from, and for me it’s because of my counseling training and my therapeutic training that I’ve had that we, as part of the training, we’re made to unpack a lot of things that we have learned, right, but I think that journaling, introspection, speaking to people who can give you that insight, a different perspective, can always help to recognize where this is coming from, how does it really impact me, and is it really me, and what part of it do I own, and what can I do about it? So I really see introspection as a key quality in just understanding yourself, and also understanding your own leadership journey, and where you can take accountability?

Valerie Friedlander 8:21
Okay, so you just used a word that I hear used a lot, and I often have this sense of, like, you keep saying that word, but I don’t think you mean what it actually means. Yeah, I would love for you to share a little bit about accountability and what that actually means, and where you see that word misused. I know you have a lot of exercises in the book, but you know, maybe it relates to one of those, and maybe it’s, it’s just something like helping people who I think the people who recognize that it’s not being used correctly are often the people who are being harmed by the lack of it, not the people who are like that is fine. So, what? What does accountability mean? What does it look like, and what can people do? I want to say both in terms of advocating for it, but also maybe recognizing that they’re not using it correctly; on the flip side.

Falguni Shah 9:29
So I think of accountability as really two things: one is a sense of ownership, and number two, it comes from being transparent with yourself and being transparent with others, and so if I talk about, like you said, people who are on the receiving end of lack of accountability easily tend to point it out, but as leader. Leaders, we have to introspect, like I said earlier, on where we can do things differently. Leaders naturally are in that position because they have a sense of ownership, right? They are tied to the vision, mission, and the vision and the strategy, and the expectation is how can the followers align themselves with that mission, vision, and strategy, and so what is it that I can do as a leader to make that clear and transparent to have that effective communication to communicate clearly. What are the expectations to understand what the expectations are of you as a leader, and am I as a leader walking the walk and talking the talk? Is something that I consider accountability, and individuals who are accountable to think about and I’m trying to think about misuse part of your question, it’s easy to point finger at somebody else and say hey they’re not accountable but I think what we can control is our own behavior at the end of the day and it is bound to reflect on the other person, and we are upholding that value that we believe in, and that change that we own is something that we have the control over, and we can be the change that we want to see in others.

Valerie Friedlander 11:41
Yeah. yeah, I think it’s, it’s really hard when you see things that are not right happening, to want to, you know, like finding that balance between.. I don’t even know if it’s a balance, and I’m thinking about this as, as we’re talking, in terms of, I very much believe in that self accountability, like thinking that you know introspection, the mindfulness, the reflection of like what’s my part and what’s not my part, and sometimes my part is advocacy, which can look and feel like I saw a thing a while ago talking about that accountability can feel like an attack when someone isn’t willing to look at themselves, that they’re not willing to look at their part. It feels like a threat and an attack, and one of the things that you say in the book that really stood out to me the leaders often exhibit territorial behavior, which erodes trust and collaboration across teams and departments, and that speaks to me of that scarcity mindset, like your achievement is a threat to me, which inherently blocks innovation, right? Like, I can only go so far in my own head. I might be brilliant, but, like, my ideas only exist in the perspective that I contain in myself, which limits so many other possibilities. Do you find there is something that helps people? Maybe there’s an exercise or a question that really helps people step into recognizing, oh, I’m operating in scarcity, I’m operating from this internalized hierarchical mentality that’s making other people’s success feel like a threat to me.

Falguni Shah 13:45
So I have a few exercises in the book. One of them is building effective communication, which will help leaders understand how to build that relationship of trust. I think that lack of trust causes all of these issues, and this feeling of threat, and this feeling of fear of speaking up. It’s all because of that lack of trusted relationships, and so I think there is so many narratives and stories in the book, and firsthand statements that are said by the managers that kind of builds that trust, and some statements that really undermine that trust, and so that’s another power in the book, in addition to the tools, is those narratives, and they’re really powerful, but there’s another tool in it that talks about power and privilege, and how are you understanding your own power in different situations, so although you may, you may not be a supervisor, but you. Do have power in certain situations, and how do you recognize that power and privilege that you have and use it to your advantage, and also understand where your limitations are, and how can you use that power to advocate for others, like you said, so the managers that have the power can advocate for their direct reports across departments and say, “Hey, you know, to this other director that I think I have the perfect person that you’re looking for in your senior leadership team. That’s the power of advocacy when you start advocating for your people when they’re not there, you know, and so, yeah, there is, there is, I believe, six or seven exercises in the back of the book that can be used between teams, that can be used individually. There is another exercise called Inclusive Leadership Competencies. This really helps you assess yourself, what your competencies are, and how can you develop those competencies and skills of an inclusive leader.

Valerie Friedlander 16:09
Yeah, that piece of awareness is so key, and one of the things that I like that you do, and that I try and do in the podcast, is like speak to multiple audiences, I’m, you know, want to speak to the people who are, who are navigating the systems from a place where they’re the ones that are being harmed by the system, and I want to speak to the people who are upholding the system, because sometimes they’re the same people, you know, and experiencing it, like I think about white women, are often some of the the most egregious oppressors in a workplace because of that proximity to power and the push to prove oneself. There’s that sense of if I have to prove myself, so I have to push to prove myself, and other people’s success is that glass ceiling, like now I’m standing on the ceiling, so I am keeping other people down, so that I stay in the top, you know, like if other people come up, then I won’t stay in the top of things.

Falguni Shah 17:08
Yeah,

Valerie Friedlander 17:10
So I think it’s a challenge to speak to both audiences as well, because there really is a very strong power differential that occurs in the workplaces. So, how did you navigate that when writing this book?

Falguni Shah 17:27
Yeah, yeah, you know, sometimes it’s important to recognize when this environment is no longer conducive or healthy for an individual, you know, and when is a good time to make that change, because if the value and the mission and the vision doesn’t really align with yours, and you’re not able to make progress, then it’s something that is not in your control, and it’s if that environment is not going to change, you know, you have been speaking up, you have been calling out the behavior, but if it doesn’t change, then that’s when that internal readiness comes on for recognizing when is that good time for me to now make that switch, do

Valerie Friedlander 18:21
Yeah.

Falguni Shah 18:24
Does that answer your question?

Valerie Friedlander 18:26
I mean, I think so, because I think it maybe it’s also when you, when you work with people, when you go in and speak, you know, you’re speaking to a room of people and they’re coming from different perspectives, different experiences, and some of them are like I’ve been you, you know, I have been in that position, and some of them are white men in power, and maybe they’re, you know, interested, but their privilege has protected them from even realizing their bias, and so speaking to both audiences seems like it might be kind of challenging, because in some ways they need to hear different things.

Falguni Shah 19:16
Yeah,

Valerie Friedlander 19:17
So that’s kind of. I’m curious, how you approach that.

Falguni Shah 19:22
Yes, and that’s when you know it’s important to know that can you continue to swim in this water, and for how long? You know, if it’s really detrimental for you and for what you’re hoping to achieve, and some values and some principles in some organizations really don’t work for some people, they may not be valuing everybody, you know, they are not focusing on those that are misrepresented or underrepresented, and so that’s when one needs to realize and. Change that environment, because you cannot change other people, like I said earlier, but you can find an environment that suits best for you, and you know it’s not that simple, like I said earlier, you know that internal readiness component is huge.

Valerie Friedlander 20:21
Yeah, absolutely, and the economy,

Falguni Shah 20:23
Exactly,

Valerie Friedlander 20:24
and ever, you know, like, what level of risk can you take on, but also risk, I think of risk not just in terms of yes, there’s the financial risk and the material risk, and then there’s the emotional, spiritual well-being risk, like you can have, you can be making plenty of money and be well,

Falguni Shah 20:46
Yeah,

Valerie Friedlander 20:47
in that sense. But if it’s breaking you down, I’ve worked with a number of women who have had adrenal fatigue, you know, they had to leave a workplace because they, like, we talk about burnout, we use that kind of like exhaustion, it when you’re actually burnt out, it is so much more than exhaustion.

Falguni Shah 21:05
Yeah,

Valerie Friedlander 21:05
it is… you, you are not functional anymore, and that really does happen to people. So I’m hearing, and what you’re describing, in some ways it’s like, hey guys, look around, and if it’s just a bunch of white men here, you have a problem, like if you’re losing all your people,

Falguni Shah 21:25
right,

Valerie Friedlander 21:25
then maybe there’s something you need to look at, because you’re losing people.

Falguni Shah 21:31
Right, and you know, I was speaking to a company recently where they wanted to bring me in for their leadership development training, and they were having such a hard time, they were like, we’re losing minorities, we’re losing women of color, but the leadership doesn’t want to do something about it, like they’re not vested, they don’t come to these meetings where they should be coming to, and so, How can we focus on retention. What are some evidence-based practices that they wanted to bring me on that help with retention, and tell us some points that we can tell our leadership to say, ‘Hey, this is high time now, and this is what needs to happen if this needs to change.

Valerie Friedlander 22:17
How did you handle that?

Falguni Shah 22:19
So they bought my book, and they said we’re going to read your book and find some points that we can take to our leadership and say we need to bring this person for leadership development at our organization. So that’s where we left off with that organization. I said, you know, I will research evidence-based peer-reviewed articles on what helps companies with retention, and I will email them to you, which you can use as part of your talking points.

Falguni Shah 22:51
Yeah, I so often I, that that seems to be a common thing that there’s some people who are like, we, you know, either performative level of it from the higher ups, or the higher ups aren’t participating, and we HR recognizes this is an issue. Yeah, and you know what comes to mind as you’re, is you’re talking about this kind of going back to that the imposter position of like, and what you personally did of taking action, like I feel this, but I’m still going to take action anyway. And it’s one of the things that I often recommend, you know, the baby steps of building confidence. You’re not going to feel confident until you do a thing. You have to do the thing in order to feel the confidence. And so, recognizing I’ve internalized this, so that I can, I can break it down, and breaking it down looks like doing the things and doing the things and showing myself, and I kind of, I wonder if more women and people who are typically not given a voice and not uplifted in organizations actually owned their expertise and went off and did their own thing and built, like, hey, I know how to run this, I know how to do these things, I’m going to go build something else, because I know how to do it.

Falguni Shah 24:11
Right, yeah, and that’s when that happens when you, it’s that aha moment when you recognize that, yes, I need to do something about this, let me brainstorm and put things down on paper that I am good at, that I can do, and is this something that I need to venture, and like you did, you know, like do something on my own, start my own company, and I call that a hard reset, taking a look at, you know, again, is this the right environment for me? Do I need to think about my own skill set, and what can I do with that, rather than, you know, stagnate and make that hard reset and reclaim your purpose and reclaim. Confidence, and reclaim your truth.

Valerie Friedlander 25:03
Yeah, one of the things that I mean, I don’t necessarily advocate for everybody to start their own business. It is not for everyone, and I think no matter what you do, having a team, whether you know it might not be a team in your organization, but you mentioned several times about getting some reflection, honest reflection from other people who know you, get you know, having the people behind you, you had your, your grandmother’s example, and not everybody has a powerful example of somebody who trailblazed, like you know, stepping into that space, and then going like I will give my own example of stepping into entrepreneurship. I didn’t have any examples of entrepreneurship. I didn’t know what the heck I was doing, and part of what ended up happening for me was I looked to people who were not the best people for me to give me some guidance, because I didn’t know anything, and I was like, what am I doing? And so I first, I, before I even ask a question, I just want to appreciate the fact that you are bringing forward through your work, through this book, that message and that example of like you can do something different, and and sharing the story of your grandmother who did do something different, and so what message here right now would you want to give people who maybe haven’t had that example before, who are like, I, I need to, I’m at that point, I’m at that point where I have to make a change, something has to give, this is not a, this doesn’t work for me, what message would you want them to know?

Falguni Shah 26:43
You know, just like you, I didn’t know anything about writing a book, and I didn’t know any authors before I ventured on this. I just reached out to people, and I would say, you know, reach out to people that have done it that are willing to support. There’s a ton of people out there who want to help. It’s just a matter of finding the right people, and I also think that believing in yourself and taking that leap of faith and taking those baby steps, you know, and this day and age, I mean, information is at your fingertips. I think that not being afraid is one of the key essential steps, and there are so many examples of role models of people that have been able to do that, so we, we have examples in front of us, and so if they can do it, you can do it.

Valerie Friedlander 27:47
Yeah, you don’t have to know them personally, and right, you can also reach out to people. That’s one of the things that I have found to be really wonderful, and something that I always work to pay forward, of like reach out, ask a question. You know, you might not get the answer you want. You might not get an answer at all. People are busy, but don’t let that deter you from from trying and from trying again. And you know the, the right person, the person who will be helpful, will be there.

Falguni Shah 28:19
Right. I do want to add that if you have an authentic message, if you are being true to yourself, and if you’re being authentic, then people do believe in your message, and they do come forward when you ask for help.

Valerie Friedlander 28:40
Yeah, so one of the things that, as we get towards the end, I realized that we, we didn’t define gaslighting, and yes, people can look it up, but I really appreciated what you wrote about, and how that differentiation. So, if it’s all right with you, I’ll read what you wrote about gaslighting and truth lighting.

Falguni Shah 29:04
Yes, and I would like to clarify something when you’re done reading about gaslighting.

Valerie Friedlander 29:11
Yeah, okay. So, gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation where a person or group makes someone question their reality, memory, or perception. It often involves denial, misdirection, contradiction, or lying to make the victim feel confused, doubtful of their experiences, or even mentally unstable. It commonly occurs in relationships where one person wants to control and undermine the other. In the workplace, it can take the form of dismissing concerns about bias, denying unequal treatment, or making employees feel like their struggles are imagined, and truth lightning illuminates the truth, affirms reality instead of distorting it, and reinforces trust rather than manipulation. And deception, it is an intentional effort to bring transparency, honesty, and accountability to workplace interactions, particularly in hiring, promoting, and leadership development, and there’s a visual that I think of of a cylinder, and there’s a light shining on one side that’s creating a circle shadow, and then a light shining on the the cylinder side that’s creating a square, and that perception of, well, no, it’s a circle, and no, it’s a square. Truth lighting seems to be that, like, well, let’s, let’s look at, let’s understand what the object is that’s casting the shadow instead of doubling down on no, no, there’s a square here, because I experience a square, and thus it is a square, and then you’re gaslighting the person who’s seeing the circle, and usually there’s a systemic or organizational power dynamic that uplifts the square seeing people versus the circle seeing people,

Falguni Shah 31:01
That’s a great analogy, and I think the crux is that you’re appreciating both perceptions, somebody can see the same thing differently than you do, and so it’s that acknowledging and saying, agreeing that, okay, this is your reality, but that’s not how I may see it, but just appreciating that perspective of that different perspective. But what I wanted to share is that gaslighting – we’ve known gaslighting based on a movie that came out years ago, right? And there is a victim and there’s abuser, but then it’s not always men, it’s anybody who is in the position of power, so it’s not really an attack on men, is what I wanted to clarify, but then there’s also subtle forms of gaslighting, where we’re gaslighting ourselves, or we’re gaslighting in subtle manners, it’s not really like a physical abuse or verbal abuse, and when we think about truth lighting, it’s essentially three behaviors. The first one is you’re validating somebody’s reality, so paraphrasing it back to them using statements like I hear you, I understand. So that’s the first step, is to validate and listen to understand. The second step of truth lighting is to provide affirmations. So, this is the problem, and these are the solutions that you have identified, and I think, based on the way I’ve known you, there’s one, two, and three strengths that’s going to make you successful. So, you’re providing positive affirmations, and the third one is giving actionable feedback. So, those are three essential skills of truth lighting, and I urge everybody to practice them. It sounds really simple, but when it comes to day-to-day conversation, it doesn’t come as intuitively.

Valerie Friedlander 33:05
We are very conditioned into either or thinking, and I would even encourage folks who have kids who are listening and practice it with their kids, because we parents often gaslight our kids without thinking about it, because of that conditioning of, like, you know, I see it happen so much in urgency. The faster we’re pushed to move, and we don’t have what you know, as you were talking about that time to think about ourselves, to reflect, and to notice things, that when we’re in a rush, that’s when we shut down any other possibilities or opportunities or anything, and go right into, well, it’s this way and only this way, enough, everything else feels like a threat. So, yeah, so I really appreciate that, that distinction, and those tips. Is there anything as we wrap up, that you would really want the people listening to take away from this conversation.

Falguni Shah 34:10
Sure, I think that there’s three things that come up to mind. One is be authentic and build authentic relationship of trust based on trust and not based on transactional things that you need from them. Number two is be a lifelong learner and have that curiosity, and number three is to really lead with humility and collaborate with others and appreciate all the different perspectives that people may have.

Valerie Friedlander 34:44
Yeah, yeah. There’s so much more richness in life when you do that, and I will add a fourth, which is to pick up the book.

Falguni Shah 34:54
Thank you.

Valerie Friedlander 34:55
You can get it all the places that you get books, we really. Just scratched the surface of what’s in here, and it’s really wonderful. So, thank you so much for joining me and scratching the surface of what you talk about. As we wrap up, I like to invite two questions, and also just a reminder before we dive into that, that there are links in the show notes for where you can get the book, where you can connect with Falguni, all of the things. So, please check out the show notes and reach out with your questions. Booker for a speaking gig, if you’re hearing stuff and you’re thinking, yes, I have people who need to hear this, there are all the notes, are everything’s in the show notes, that’s what I’m trying to say. So, what does it mean to you to be unlimited?

Falguni Shah 35:50
So, I think sky is a limit if you set your mind and heart and soul and purpose to whatever it is that you want to do, so anything is possible,

Valerie Friedlander 36:02
and I have a playlist for songs for my guests that they like to listen to when they want to tap into that sky is a limit unlimited feeling. What song do you listen to?

Falguni Shah 36:23
So there’s there’s a number of songs, but one that comes to mind right away is Let It Go from the movie Frozen, especially because it talks about not caring what other people say, not really succumbing to your fears and not let your fears control you, and it talks about breaking through, testing your limits. There’s nothing, there’s no right or no wrong, or no rules. So, I like that part.

Valerie Friedlander 36:54
Yeah, yeah, very much. So, don’t buy into the perspective or perception that other people are placing upon you, you are you, and you are amazing and powerful and magical, and I love it.

Falguni Shah 37:08
Well said.

Valerie Friedlander 37:08
Thank you again so much for joining me. It has been a pleasure speaking with you.

Falguni Shah 37:14
Thank you, thank you for having me, Valerie.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai